Religion

Subject: Religion Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:58 pm

personally, I do not entirely believe, and I do hope im not subjugated to attack since I do follow my OWN beliefs. But I am curious as to how many people actually think religion and more or less the paranormal form of religion(demons, ghost, etc.) play a role or even if they exist.

Is the very entity of "God" just an illusion some madman conjured up? Why did it stick? was it fear that compelled the world to believe? or was it true? Was Jesus Christ really the son of this "God"? what will happen when man chooses to prove his readiness in a war that will eradicate mankind as so the bible says? Consider this a theory

I do understand, some of you will scream blasphemy, but do realize, I am entitled to my opinion.
_________________
As for the 3rd world war, as Einstein said:

1st: Guns and horses.
2nd: Tanks and Airplanes.
3rd: Nukes and radioactive bombs.
4th: Bow and Arrow.

Horde:
Aledon/Auroth
Guild Master <Infinity>

Subject: Re: Religion Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:16 pm

I'm agnostic, I simply refuse to believe things are as simple as the holy scriptures describe. I like the complication of our existence, at the same time it depresses me to think we're here for no reason. I think it depresses a lot of people to have that insinuation pressed upon them, and it's what keeps their faith strong. I think this makes for an interesting debate and I'd like to see what some religious folk think. As for the biblical stories, I find them to be texts which do not accurately reflect the path our social evolution has taken, and some fundamentalists seem to only interpret some aspects of the bible literally (Gay marriage, abortion, polygamy) whereas some are overlooked because they absolutely do not correspond with modern values (Usury, Working on Sunday, selling your daughter into slavery).

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able, and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
- Epicurus
_________________

Subject: Re: Religion Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:24 pm

Great topic, I am glad someone made it after all.

I'll be honest with you guys, I'm a Complete 100% Atheist.
I don't believe in any Religion, nor any super natural/supreme being e.g "God".

The reason for this is quite simple... Science, Logic and Rationality which more or less are fused.
Now about your questions.

I personally believe that in our history there are several reasons why religion has survived.
For one, is that people have always had the need to explain things which were a mystery to them, therefore "gods" like Zeus, Thor, Ra an many more existed because Human Kind at that time couldn't possibly explain natural activities such as Tornadoes, Rain, Thunder and more.
Another reason would be of course Fear. Mostly the fear of Unknown. For example, Death. A vast majority of people, or even 99% of them... And I perfectly understand why, obviously its not possible to know what happens after death, or what doesn't happen for that matter.

Thirdly, people were controlled much more back in the dark ages. Certainly Religion had the upper hand in our history for a very long time, the Church ruled quite a long time, and did many things to make people depended on religion. Peoples liberties and freedoms weren't taken into account, since the last word was that of the Priests and the Bishops and whatnot. Thats why the "Witch Craft" began, and thats why over 40 thousand women were murdered for speaking against the Church.
Even nowadays, that can be observed in societies. Iran, Saudi Arabia are an example of such societies, where women are oppressed, and Religion rules. An example of oppression, is Women can't drive car's nor can go out without the company of a male in Saudi Arabia, in Iran women cannot divorce without having a very SOLID reason which would include one of these 3: The husband is incapable of impregnating the wife, The husband has a mental disorder and the Husband cannot provide for the family (Economically). You may very well noticed that Domestic violence is not included in these 3 reasons.

Now continuing about the existence of "Jesus Christ". There is no sufficient historical evidence proving that anyone named "Jesus Christ" ever existed accept of course the Bible itself, which cannot be used to prove the existence of this person. Furthermore, even if you would use the Bible as historical evidence, In my opinion, skeptical as I am, i would need at least 2 solid sources of historical evidence proving the existence of "Jesus Christ".

I am more then willing to debate with any member about the existence of any deity whatsoever.

Cheers.
_________________
Veritas Vos Liberabit.

Guest

I'm atheistic aswell, I've read the oldschool bible (the one with all the bullcrap), had my confirmation and come to the conclusion of how incredibly weird and stupid this all actually was.
KILL the non-believers of god? All men with long hair must die? When you sell your daughter atleast sell it to a good buyer? All these weird quotes that were only explained with "it's because it's old, you should get a new one". But why do you have to change the content of a book which has been written by the hand of God? All of these questions made them call my mother, very sad about this she decided not to give me a present when I actually did it. Even though I said I was sceptical to the whole "god" thing and said I was an atheist I still got my confirmation, though it is a ritual of us accepting God in our lives, even though I said I didn't, it still happened. I was against the fate of God, but everyone around me forced it upon me, so I actually believed it for some time.
But yeah I reread the old bible and then thought "goddamnit they almost got me <.<"

Oh and what about drinking blood (of christ), but it still supposed to symbolize blood even though it isn't and bread instead of flesh. Isn't a little bit twisted?

But hey, it's all about common sense. How can you believe that a man outside of time and space (logic???) made this entire universe, every little thing that ever happens is part of his special little plan for you.

Also loving people who say that the bible is about loving and caring for the ones you love (so you don't go to hell). I'd rather see a good deed be done out of kindness and morale, instead out of fear of going to get eternally tortured.

In the end it just don't makes sense, there doesn't need to be any concrete of the absence of a God, when all of about this guy is very illogical and doesn't make any sense at all.

Guest

Subject: Re: Religion Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:21 am

amazing logical responses by both of you, and yes, I do believe Agnostic beliefs are more accurate than many other beliefs, it does indeed make people fear their very life when the conscience quiestion of, "why do I exist". "what is my purpose", when a human being goes into such thought, they sulk into depression, because their is no evident answer or scientifical backing, the very thought of being forgotten and meaningless drived people into aphobias. I believe the old or ancient, "gods", did not exist, think of it like this, the human imagination is limitless, it has no bounds or restrictions, they were simply conjured, for what reason, I cannot say, maybe power, maybe for a minor sense of security. But unless I have tangiable, physical and evident proof, I will not believe, a bird-headed god protected the aztecans nor will I believe some mighty, holy entity of powers beyond reason exist. I agree ten-fold with this given scripture. A massive collaboration of pages and riddles, to scare man, to make him fear a possible being that may not even exist, my theory is the human conjuration of imagination.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able, and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
_________________
As for the 3rd world war, as Einstein said:

1st: Guns and horses.
2nd: Tanks and Airplanes.
3rd: Nukes and radioactive bombs.
4th: Bow and Arrow.

Horde:
Aledon/Auroth
Guild Master <Infinity>

Subject: Re: Religion Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:24 am

Guest

Subject: Re: Religion Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:37 am

No evidence means exactly that - no evidence.

Bible was written by a human and not god.

_________________

Useful Links
V.C.N Donor Shop | Server Rules | Vote Here| Server Rules | Create Game Account

Guest

Guest

Subject: Re: Religion Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:34 am

It's so hypocritical, how it carried on for this long I do not know, it's like a dictatorship by a guy who claims he's all for the good and peace, but do you remember the holy crusades? I can't really remember exactly or place an accuate guess, but I think around the1100s. The holy march King Richard the I, the "Lionheart" of christian England led to take back the holy lands from muslim "opression", jerusalem? that was with swords, bows and sheilds, we now have the technology to completely eradicate all living matter in a specified concentrated area, and sometimes I think the worlds downfall will be for this very reason, a being we have no evident proof of. I am not against "god" if there is in fact this astral being of limitless divinity and nor is this topic attacking anyone, all are free to express, maybe it's my paranoia, but to me, I feel something stirring amidst the global chaos sweeping the world.
_________________
As for the 3rd world war, as Einstein said:

1st: Guns and horses.
2nd: Tanks and Airplanes.
3rd: Nukes and radioactive bombs.
4th: Bow and Arrow.

Horde:
Aledon/Auroth
Guild Master <Infinity>

Subject: Re: Religion Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:02 am

Jaxde,

I completely agree with your perception. I too have nothing against the idea of "god", you're free to choose to believe or not, and thats the beauty of it.
However, the thing about religion is, it pushes you to believe. It uses methods such as Fear and rewards to draw you into it. Fear being Hell and reward being Heaven.
By the way, its completely ridicules how Christians claim Islam is an evil religion, it is ironic as well, since they themselves have done more Evil is our whole history then Islam will ever be able to do. Furthermore, I am anti-religious, since in my opinion religion is very subjective and that is a disadvantage to the extreme. Thus people can interpret verses and chapters in any way they wish, which would most likely look to good deeds or bad ones. Further to this, people are quite selective as well, so they pick and choose certain verses and words which highlight the good things about the religion and ignore or despise the ridicules ones.

In my opinion religion is still present for the obvious reasons. Family upbringing being one of them. Since the family is the primary socialization for almost all people, they will be brought up according the their parents/guardians belief and will be influenced.

Cheers.
_________________
Veritas Vos Liberabit.

Subject: Re: Religion Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:38 am

Chicken VS Egg
Nature VS Nurture
Creation VS Evolution

All these address the same question, Who?

A religion is an answer to who, and supports it with why, how, where, and when. It is up to you to choose religion as an answer to this question but the fact still stands that the question is there. We ask ourselves this question every second from birth to death and to be honest we may never know the answer, how we find the answer is based on what you believe the answer is. If you believe buddhism is the answer then the answer will be revealed through a cycle of good deeds, in Islam it is through submission to god, in Christianity it is by not sinning and faith in god. Not believing in a creator is fine but logic dictates that you still must find an answer to who. By being an atheist you are ignoring the question as to WHO (or what in the case of science). The need to know where we came from is a primal instinct and to avoid so makes you not human.

(NOTE) Many people address the human methods of answering "who" such as the SPECIFIC beliefs and rituals of a religion but these have nothing to do with the spiritual answers of a religion such as the Hindu concepts of the seasons of the universe.

You can justify yourself by pointing out that you do not make deliberate acts to "avoid the question" and you have yet to find an answer you believe in. It is when an atheist looks upon a religion (or answer) and questions it, does it make sense to question an answer? To question and answer to "WHO" is disrespectful to those who believe in that answer and live by it.

So please atheists stop addressing the issue through reference and analysis of Religion , it is quite disrespectful.

Guest

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7Vt-TaTc5Y&feature=related someone gotta teach me how to get this embed <.<