vote item request Panther

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Subject: Re: vote item request Panther

Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:44 pm

hambrgrhelpr wrote:

Kayako wrote:

meatballkeeper wrote:

Kayako wrote:

ant011 wrote:

shorter cooldown for the pop and would be good to add to voting i request apolyon the soul render XD we 2h need a vote wepon lol

apolyon is too fast to be useful in pvp<.<

apolyon also has 3 sockets.

it's a ret paladin's wet dream.

but i agree, this trinket would be nice. Smile

apolyon is also a 3.4 speed, anything under 3.6 is a something that a ret paladin who isn't horrible would never consider using, it severely cripples the potentially amazing burst a retribution paladin is capable of, and that's all retribution has to its name, it does nothing else that another class can't do better besides that burst.

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34247

vs

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=35015

Well, lets take a look... .2 (thats tenths of a second) difference. 2h is normalized at 3.3 speed. Its got better stats all around (it has haste, and Armor Pen doesnt work on vcn) PLUS it has 3 sockets.

This weapon is the best (2h) option for both retardadin and warrior.

fixed -_-

I know what I'm talking about, anything under 3.6 speed will screw your burst over.

that's because you'll get less procs per swing and your procs will also do less damage

apolyon = best retribution weapon in a PvE setting, not PvP.

at the moment either stormherald or torch is the best retribution pvp weapon because of the slow 3.8 speed, which means that you'll get more procs per swing and they'll also do more damage, meaning more potential burst, don't nerf your burst power by using a fast weapon, that is what defines a retardadin from a retadin.

hambrgrhelpr
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Posts : 329
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Subject: Re: vote item request Panther

Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:09 am

Kayako wrote:

hambrgrhelpr wrote:

Kayako wrote:

meatballkeeper wrote:

Kayako wrote:

ant011 wrote:

shorter cooldown for the pop and would be good to add to voting i request apolyon the soul render XD we 2h need a vote wepon lol

apolyon is too fast to be useful in pvp<.<

apolyon also has 3 sockets.

it's a ret paladin's wet dream.

but i agree, this trinket would be nice. Smile

apolyon is also a 3.4 speed, anything under 3.6 is a something that a ret paladin who isn't horrible would never consider using, it severely cripples the potentially amazing burst a retribution paladin is capable of, and that's all retribution has to its name, it does nothing else that another class can't do better besides that burst.

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34247

vs

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=35015

Well, lets take a look... .2 (thats tenths of a second) difference. 2h is normalized at 3.3 speed. Its got better stats all around (it has haste, and Armor Pen doesnt work on vcn) PLUS it has 3 sockets.

This weapon is the best (2h) option for both retardadin and warrior.

fixed -_-

I know what I'm talking about, anything under 3.6 speed will screw your burst over.

that's because you'll get less procs per swing and your procs will also do less damage

apolyon = best retribution weapon in a PvE setting, not PvP.

Would you like to quote from some source as to why a weapon is a bad option for pvp, even though it is 8 dps higher than any other competing with it AND having 3 sockets? If you can, then I will admit defeat, but imo the .2 speed doesnt mean anything against the overall superior stats and the extra 60+ AP that youll get from the 10 str gems.

.2 second difference, not an entire second like the two donor items. The reason apolyon has higher AP is because its a test with using the two different items, and apolyon has a higher amount of attack power, especially after gemmed. The equations below shows a test assuming 10 str gems.

(apolyon)
505 + (3.4 * 2586 / 14) = 1133 avg hit

(brutal)
505 + (3.6*2500 / 14) = 1147 avg hit

As you can see, there is a loss of 14 average damage. That doesnt screw over your burst damage. When you include Your probability to be much higher than the hit cap, broken resilience, armor penetration not working, the 16 stamina that you gain, the faster swing timer, AND the 32 haste (2% attack speed, which would come out to be a little more than a 1% dps increase) on apolyon... yeah it definitely screws over your burst capability. Not to mention the spell pushback from faster swing timers.

Therefore, you can see that you (in fact) will be much better off with apolyon.
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Fergie
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Subject: Re: vote item request Panther

Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:15 am

hambrgrhelpr wrote:

Kayako wrote:

hambrgrhelpr wrote:

Kayako wrote:

meatballkeeper wrote:

Kayako wrote:

ant011 wrote:

shorter cooldown for the pop and would be good to add to voting i request apolyon the soul render XD we 2h need a vote wepon lol

apolyon is too fast to be useful in pvp<.<

apolyon also has 3 sockets.

it's a ret paladin's wet dream.

but i agree, this trinket would be nice. Smile

apolyon is also a 3.4 speed, anything under 3.6 is a something that a ret paladin who isn't horrible would never consider using, it severely cripples the potentially amazing burst a retribution paladin is capable of, and that's all retribution has to its name, it does nothing else that another class can't do better besides that burst.

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34247

vs

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=35015

Well, lets take a look... .2 (thats tenths of a second) difference. 2h is normalized at 3.3 speed. Its got better stats all around (it has haste, and Armor Pen doesnt work on vcn) PLUS it has 3 sockets.

This weapon is the best (2h) option for both retardadin and warrior.

fixed -_-

I know what I'm talking about, anything under 3.6 speed will screw your burst over.

that's because you'll get less procs per swing and your procs will also do less damage

apolyon = best retribution weapon in a PvE setting, not PvP.

Would you like to quote from some source as to why a weapon is a bad option for pvp, even though it is 8 dps higher than any other competing with it AND having 3 sockets? If you can, then I will admit defeat, but imo the .2 speed doesnt mean anything against the overall superior stats and the extra 60+ AP that youll get from the 10 str gems.

.2 second difference, not an entire second like the two donor items. The reason apolyon has higher AP is because its a test with using the two different items, and apolyon has a higher amount of attack power, especially after gemmed. The equations below shows a test assuming 10 str gems.

(apolyon)
505 + (3.4 * 2586 / 14) = 1133 avg hit

(brutal)
505 + (3.6*2500 / 14) = 1147 avg hit

As you can see, there is a loss of 14 average damage. That doesnt screw over your burst damage. When you include Your probability to be much higher than the hit cap, broken resilience, armor penetration not working, the 16 stamina that you gain, the faster swing timer, AND the 32 haste (2% attack speed, which would come out to be a little more than a 1% dps increase) on apolyon... yeah it definitely screws over your burst capability. Not to mention the spell pushback from faster swing timers.

Therefore, you can see that you (in fact) will be much better off with apolyon.

The only part of resilience that is broken is the reduced chance to be critted.

The reduced DAMAGE from crits and the reduced damage of DoTs and the effects of mana drains work just fine.

hambrgrhelpr
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Age : 18
Joined : 01 Aug 2008
Posts : 329
Location : Central Florida

Subject: Re: vote item request Panther

Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:19 am

Fergie wrote:

hambrgrhelpr wrote:

Kayako wrote:

hambrgrhelpr wrote:

Kayako wrote:

meatballkeeper wrote:

Kayako wrote:

ant011 wrote:

shorter cooldown for the pop and would be good to add to voting i request apolyon the soul render XD we 2h need a vote wepon lol

apolyon is too fast to be useful in pvp<.<

apolyon also has 3 sockets.

it's a ret paladin's wet dream.

but i agree, this trinket would be nice. Smile

apolyon is also a 3.4 speed, anything under 3.6 is a something that a ret paladin who isn't horrible would never consider using, it severely cripples the potentially amazing burst a retribution paladin is capable of, and that's all retribution has to its name, it does nothing else that another class can't do better besides that burst.

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34247

vs

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=35015

Well, lets take a look... .2 (thats tenths of a second) difference. 2h is normalized at 3.3 speed. Its got better stats all around (it has haste, and Armor Pen doesnt work on vcn) PLUS it has 3 sockets.

This weapon is the best (2h) option for both retardadin and warrior.

fixed -_-

I know what I'm talking about, anything under 3.6 speed will screw your burst over.

that's because you'll get less procs per swing and your procs will also do less damage

apolyon = best retribution weapon in a PvE setting, not PvP.

Would you like to quote from some source as to why a weapon is a bad option for pvp, even though it is 8 dps higher than any other competing with it AND having 3 sockets? If you can, then I will admit defeat, but imo the .2 speed doesnt mean anything against the overall superior stats and the extra 60+ AP that youll get from the 10 str gems.

.2 second difference, not an entire second like the two donor items. The reason apolyon has higher AP is because its a test with using the two different items, and apolyon has a higher amount of attack power, especially after gemmed. The equations below shows a test assuming 10 str gems.

(apolyon)
505 + (3.4 * 2586 / 14) = 1133 avg hit

(brutal)
505 + (3.6*2500 / 14) = 1147 avg hit

As you can see, there is a loss of 14 average damage. That doesnt screw over your burst damage. When you include Your probability to be much higher than the hit cap, broken resilience, armor penetration not working, the 16 stamina that you gain, the faster swing timer, AND the 32 haste (2% attack speed, which would come out to be a little more than a 1% dps increase) on apolyon... yeah it definitely screws over your burst capability. Not to mention the spell pushback from faster swing timers.

Therefore, you can see that you (in fact) will be much better off with apolyon.

The only part of resilience that is broken is the reduced chance to be critted.

The reduced DAMAGE from crits and the reduced damage of DoTs and the effects of mana drains work just fine.

0.84% difference. If you are that low and don't die its 110% luck. And i think you have it backwards, or else i doubt that I could crit a mage for ~2400/2500 with S4 gear on.
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Subject: Re: vote item request Panther

Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:23 am

hambrgrhelpr wrote:

Kayako wrote:

hambrgrhelpr wrote:

Kayako wrote:

meatballkeeper wrote:

Kayako wrote:

ant011 wrote:

shorter cooldown for the pop and would be good to add to voting i request apolyon the soul render XD we 2h need a vote wepon lol

apolyon is too fast to be useful in pvp<.<

apolyon also has 3 sockets.

it's a ret paladin's wet dream.

but i agree, this trinket would be nice. Smile

apolyon is also a 3.4 speed, anything under 3.6 is a something that a ret paladin who isn't horrible would never consider using, it severely cripples the potentially amazing burst a retribution paladin is capable of, and that's all retribution has to its name, it does nothing else that another class can't do better besides that burst.

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34247

vs

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=35015

Well, lets take a look... .2 (thats tenths of a second) difference. 2h is normalized at 3.3 speed. Its got better stats all around (it has haste, and Armor Pen doesnt work on vcn) PLUS it has 3 sockets.

This weapon is the best (2h) option for both retardadin and warrior.

fixed -_-

I know what I'm talking about, anything under 3.6 speed will screw your burst over.

that's because you'll get less procs per swing and your procs will also do less damage

apolyon = best retribution weapon in a PvE setting, not PvP.

Would you like to quote from some source as to why a weapon is a bad option for pvp, even though it is 8 dps higher than any other competing with it AND having 3 sockets? If you can, then I will admit defeat, but imo the .2 speed doesnt mean anything against the overall superior stats and the extra 60+ AP that youll get from the 10 str gems.

.2 second difference, not an entire second like the two donor items. The reason apolyon has higher AP is because its a test with using the two different items, and apolyon has a higher amount of attack power, especially after gemmed. The equations below shows a test assuming 10 str gems.

(apolyon)
505 + (3.4 * 2586 / 14) = 1133 avg hit

(brutal)
505 + (3.6*2500 / 14) = 1147 avg hit

As you can see, there is a loss of 14 average damage. That doesnt screw over your burst damage. When you include Your probability to be much higher than the hit cap, broken resilience, armor penetration not working, the 16 stamina that you gain, the faster swing timer, AND the 32 haste (2% attack speed, which would come out to be a little more than a 1% dps increase) on apolyon... yeah it definitely screws over your burst capability. Not to mention the spell pushback from faster swing timers.

Therefore, you can see that you (in fact) will be much better off with apolyon.

Seal of Command = a 7 PPM (Proc Per Minute) buff, that enables a paladin a chance to do 70% weapon damage as holy damage every swing, meaning, a 3.8 speed weapon will swing less times per minute, which means more procs per swing, which in the end means more potential burst than a 3.4 speed weapon, apolyon is not a 3.6 speed weapon, it's a 3.4 speed weapon, I have no clue where you're getting 3.6 from.

this means that using a faster weapon in turn will give you less seal procs per swing, nerfing your burst, and the burst you have will also be nerfed because of the fairly recent attack power standardization that blizzard put into motion. seeing as that all a retribution paladin has to their name is BURST, because EVERY SINGLE CLASS can do whatever a retribution paladin can do BETTER, nerfing your burst by using a faster weapon is the most stupid thing you could possibly do as a retribution paladin.

hambrgrhelpr
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Age : 18
Joined : 01 Aug 2008
Posts : 329
Location : Central Florida

Subject: Re: vote item request Panther

Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:47 am

Kayako wrote:

hambrgrhelpr wrote:

Kayako wrote:

hambrgrhelpr wrote:

Kayako wrote:

meatballkeeper wrote:

Kayako wrote:

ant011 wrote:

shorter cooldown for the pop and would be good to add to voting i request apolyon the soul render XD we 2h need a vote wepon lol

apolyon is too fast to be useful in pvp<.<

apolyon also has 3 sockets.

it's a ret paladin's wet dream.

but i agree, this trinket would be nice. Smile

apolyon is also a 3.4 speed, anything under 3.6 is a something that a ret paladin who isn't horrible would never consider using, it severely cripples the potentially amazing burst a retribution paladin is capable of, and that's all retribution has to its name, it does nothing else that another class can't do better besides that burst.

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34247

vs

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=35015

Well, lets take a look... .2 (thats tenths of a second) difference. 2h is normalized at 3.3 speed. Its got better stats all around (it has haste, and Armor Pen doesnt work on vcn) PLUS it has 3 sockets.

This weapon is the best (2h) option for both retardadin and warrior.

fixed -_-

I know what I'm talking about, anything under 3.6 speed will screw your burst over.

that's because you'll get less procs per swing and your procs will also do less damage

apolyon = best retribution weapon in a PvE setting, not PvP.

Would you like to quote from some source as to why a weapon is a bad option for pvp, even though it is 8 dps higher than any other competing with it AND having 3 sockets? If you can, then I will admit defeat, but imo the .2 speed doesnt mean anything against the overall superior stats and the extra 60+ AP that youll get from the 10 str gems.

.2 second difference, not an entire second like the two donor items. The reason apolyon has higher AP is because its a test with using the two different items, and apolyon has a higher amount of attack power, especially after gemmed. The equations below shows a test assuming 10 str gems.

(apolyon)
505 + (3.4 * 2586 / 14) = 1133 avg hit

(brutal)
505 + (3.6*2500 / 14) = 1147 avg hit

As you can see, there is a loss of 14 average damage. That doesnt screw over your burst damage. When you include Your probability to be much higher than the hit cap, broken resilience, armor penetration not working, the 16 stamina that you gain, the faster swing timer, AND the 32 haste (2% attack speed, which would come out to be a little more than a 1% dps increase) on apolyon... yeah it definitely screws over your burst capability. Not to mention the spell pushback from faster swing timers.

Therefore, you can see that you (in fact) will be much better off with apolyon.

Seal of Command = a 7 PPM (Proc Per Minute) buff, that enables a paladin a chance to do 70% weapon damage as holy damage every swing, meaning, a 3.8 speed weapon will swing less times per minute, which means more procs per swing, which in the end means more potential burst than a 3.4 speed weapon, apolyon is not a 3.6 speed weapon, it's a 3.4 speed weapon, I have no clue where you're getting 3.6 from.

this means that using a faster weapon in turn will give you less seal procs per swing, nerfing your burst, and the burst you have will also be nerfed because of the fairly recent attack power standardization that blizzard put into motion. seeing as that all a retribution paladin has to their name is BURST, because EVERY SINGLE CLASS can do whatever a retribution paladin can do BETTER, nerfing your burst by using a faster weapon is the most stupid thing you could possibly do as a retribution paladin.

Now a lesson on PPM. Yes i realize that SoC is 7 PPM. What does that mean? Some might say. Well, it works around a system of (very) precise percentages and it follows them. Extremely close. However, you do still get extra damage for SoC as well from swinging faster.

Let me show you what i mean. 7 PPM means that 7 procs exactly will happen according to base weapon speed. The formula for PPM in this case is 60/7, so to get a 100% chance to proc, you would need a 8.57 speed weapon. So our formula for PPM will come from this:

Speed/8.57 = % to proc. Sooo...

3.4/8.57 = 39.67% chance to proc

3.6/8.57 = 42.00% chance to proc

Seeing as SoC makes up about 25% of your total DPS, youll see a dps gain of (.25*2.33) 0.58% damage. BUT! haste doesnt affect the PPM chance. So the 2.03% increased attack speed from apolyon will give you an overall dps gain of (.75*2.03) 1.52%, so with this youll see an overall difference of 0.94% increase with apolyon. Plus above mentioned goodies that youll have equipping apolyon.

All tests were showing the normal dps split of 50% white damage, and 25% SoC damage.
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Subject: Re: vote item request Panther Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:54 am

you sound like a pve tard -.-" DPS does not matter for PvP, burst/spike damage does, faster weapon speed = more DPS, less burst. nerfing your burst by using a faster weapon as a retribution paladin is the most stupid thing you could possibly do, as I have already said several times before... I don't need any kind of "lessons" I know what I'm talking about, but it seems we're thinking of two completely different things, Apolyon = #1 retribution PvE weapon, no doubt, for PvP, however, no. just. no.

Fergie
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Subject: Re: vote item request Panther Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:01 am

You can't forget that even on PPM based effects, it IS still possible to go an entire minute without ANY procs. It would be an extreme case of being unlucky, but it can happen. Just because SoC is an average 7 PPM doesn't mean you are guaranteed 7 procs every minute. You're not even guaranteed one. However, due to the large proc chance, you're EXPECTED to get 7, but this is not always the case. In either situation, a slower weapon beats a faster weapon for everything a Retribution Paladin does.

hambrgrhelpr
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Subject: Re: vote item request Panther

Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:05 am

Kayako wrote:

you sound like a pve tard -.-"

DPS does not matter for PvP, burst/spike damage does, faster weapon speed = more DPS, less burst.

nerfing your burst by using a faster weapon as a retribution paladin is the most stupid thing you could possibly do, as I have already said several times before...

I don't need any kind of "lessons" I know what I'm talking about, but it seems we're thinking of two completely different things, Apolyon = #1 retribution PvE weapon, no doubt, for PvP, however, no.

just. no.

DPS counts just as much in PvP, the difference is the haste which is very helpful. I'm not going into more math, but I dont think that a difference of 14 damage (9.8 dmg with SoC) is going to be the godsend kill in pvp. Burst is good, yes... but you arent giving apolyon the credit it deserves.

You think that because you use a torch or a brutal wep you are going to go up to somebody and be like "BOOOOOOOOOOOM 3 SHOTS DEAD LOL"

Especially if resil was fixed, the spell pushback capability would be more than enough reason to get a faster weapon like apolyon. Also, if you are fighting a melee class, at that point DPS does matter, unless they are going to run away for .25 seconds every swing that you take. Come to think of it, the only time brutal > apolyon would be fighting a hunter.

And if that be the case, grats. You beat the hunter. 8:1 ratio.
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Subject: Re: vote item request Panther

Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:10 am

hambrgrhelpr wrote:

Kayako wrote:

you sound like a pve tard -.-"

DPS does not matter for PvP, burst/spike damage does, faster weapon speed = more DPS, less burst.

nerfing your burst by using a faster weapon as a retribution paladin is the most stupid thing you could possibly do, as I have already said several times before...

I don't need any kind of "lessons" I know what I'm talking about, but it seems we're thinking of two completely different things, Apolyon = #1 retribution PvE weapon, no doubt, for PvP, however, no.

just. no.

DPS counts just as much in PvP, the difference is the haste which is very helpful. I'm not going into more math, but I dont think that a difference of 14 damage (9.8 dmg with SoC) is going to be the godsend kill in pvp. Burst is good, yes... but you arent giving apolyon the credit it deserves.

You think that because you use a torch or a brutal wep you are going to go up to somebody and be like "BOOOOOOOOOOOM 3 SHOTS DEAD LOL"

Especially if resil was fixed, the spell pushback capability would be more than enough reason to get a faster weapon like apolyon. Also, if you are fighting a melee class, at that point DPS does matter, unless they are going to run away for .25 seconds every swing that you take. Come to think of it, the only time brutal > apolyon would be fighting a hunter.

And if that be the case, grats. You beat the hunter. 8:1 ratio.

sorry but you seem to not get basic PvP concepts such as movement and that paladins are not an 'anti caster' class, if you want to pushback a spell as a paladin you're hopeless, .4 speed isn't going to do that, I don't know how I can get it through to you any more as I have said all I can that I know about the class

oh... if you only move/los/etc. fighting a hunter in any case... you are a horrible retribution paladin and should stop playing Very Happy

hambrgrhelpr
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Subject: Re: vote item request Panther

Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:26 am

Kayako wrote:

hambrgrhelpr wrote:

Kayako wrote:

you sound like a pve tard -.-"

DPS does not matter for PvP, burst/spike damage does, faster weapon speed = more DPS, less burst.

nerfing your burst by using a faster weapon as a retribution paladin is the most stupid thing you could possibly do, as I have already said several times before...

I don't need any kind of "lessons" I know what I'm talking about, but it seems we're thinking of two completely different things, Apolyon = #1 retribution PvE weapon, no doubt, for PvP, however, no.

just. no.

DPS counts just as much in PvP, the difference is the haste which is very helpful. I'm not going into more math, but I dont think that a difference of 14 damage (9.8 dmg with SoC) is going to be the godsend kill in pvp. Burst is good, yes... but you arent giving apolyon the credit it deserves.

You think that because you use a torch or a brutal wep you are going to go up to somebody and be like "BOOOOOOOOOOOM 3 SHOTS DEAD LOL"

Especially if resil was fixed, the spell pushback capability would be more than enough reason to get a faster weapon like apolyon. Also, if you are fighting a melee class, at that point DPS does matter, unless they are going to run away for .25 seconds every swing that you take. Come to think of it, the only time brutal > apolyon would be fighting a hunter.

And if that be the case, grats. You beat the hunter. 8:1 ratio.

sorry but you seem to not get basic PvP concepts such as movement and that paladins are not an 'anti caster' class, if you want to pushback a spell as a paladin you're hopeless, .4 speed isn't going to do that, I don't know how I can get it through to you any more as I have said all I can that I know about the class

oh... if you only move/los/etc. fighting a hunter in any case... you are a horrible retribution paladin and should stop playing Very Happy

Its astounding how hard you fail. Either that or you are new here. Hunters can and will dispel every buff that youve got, including blessing of freedom. Also, there is no LOS.

Btw, .4 speed is a LOT, most casts will be going off around 2.0 sec, so thats a pretty good chance to hit during a spell. Again, id show you more math, but you'd only show me how much you obviously DONT know.
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Fergie
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Joined : 05 Jul 2008
Posts : 1329
Location : Arkansas

Subject: Re: vote item request Panther

Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:38 am

hambrgrhelpr wrote:

Kayako wrote:

hambrgrhelpr wrote:

Kayako wrote:

you sound like a pve tard -.-"

DPS does not matter for PvP, burst/spike damage does, faster weapon speed = more DPS, less burst.

nerfing your burst by using a faster weapon as a retribution paladin is the most stupid thing you could possibly do, as I have already said several times before...

I don't need any kind of "lessons" I know what I'm talking about, but it seems we're thinking of two completely different things, Apolyon = #1 retribution PvE weapon, no doubt, for PvP, however, no.

just. no.

DPS counts just as much in PvP, the difference is the haste which is very helpful. I'm not going into more math, but I dont think that a difference of 14 damage (9.8 dmg with SoC) is going to be the godsend kill in pvp. Burst is good, yes... but you arent giving apolyon the credit it deserves.

You think that because you use a torch or a brutal wep you are going to go up to somebody and be like "BOOOOOOOOOOOM 3 SHOTS DEAD LOL"

Especially if resil was fixed, the spell pushback capability would be more than enough reason to get a faster weapon like apolyon. Also, if you are fighting a melee class, at that point DPS does matter, unless they are going to run away for .25 seconds every swing that you take. Come to think of it, the only time brutal > apolyon would be fighting a hunter.

And if that be the case, grats. You beat the hunter. 8:1 ratio.

sorry but you seem to not get basic PvP concepts such as movement and that paladins are not an 'anti caster' class, if you want to pushback a spell as a paladin you're hopeless, .4 speed isn't going to do that, I don't know how I can get it through to you any more as I have said all I can that I know about the class

oh... if you only move/los/etc. fighting a hunter in any case... you are a horrible retribution paladin and should stop playing Very Happy

Its astounding how hard you fail. Either that or you are new here. Hunters can and will dispel every buff that youve got, including blessing of freedom. Also, there is no LOS.

Btw, .4 speed is a LOT, most casts will be going off around 2.0 sec, so thats a pretty good chance to hit during a spell. Again, id show you more math, but you'd only show me how much you obviously DONT know.

Paladins.
Cannot.
Pushback.
Spells.
Ever.

Dude, they have three ways to do it. Hammer of Justice, which has a maximum 1 minute CD, and something around twenty seconds with Prot's Imp HoJ and the Glad's set bonus. Repentance, which also has a one minute CD, and can't be talented for lessened CD.

Finally, they have Seal of Justice. Chance on hit to stun for 2 seconds. And, I dunno if you ever USE Seal of Justice, but if you have, then you know just as well as I do that the proc rate absolutely BLOWS. Maybe 2 procs per minute.....if you're lucky.

One hit from a 2h weapon against a 2 second cast isn't going to do shit to the caster, bro. It knocks it back what, less than half a second? Big deal, now you're just getting hit a bit later, but you're still getting hit.

hambrgrhelpr
Algorithm

Age : 18
Joined : 01 Aug 2008
Posts : 329
Location : Central Florida

Subject: Re: vote item request Panther

Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:48 am

Fergie wrote:

hambrgrhelpr wrote:

Kayako wrote:

hambrgrhelpr wrote:

Kayako wrote:

you sound like a pve tard -.-"

DPS does not matter for PvP, burst/spike damage does, faster weapon speed = more DPS, less burst.

nerfing your burst by using a faster weapon as a retribution paladin is the most stupid thing you could possibly do, as I have already said several times before...

I don't need any kind of "lessons" I know what I'm talking about, but it seems we're thinking of two completely different things, Apolyon = #1 retribution PvE weapon, no doubt, for PvP, however, no.

just. no.

DPS counts just as much in PvP, the difference is the haste which is very helpful. I'm not going into more math, but I dont think that a difference of 14 damage (9.8 dmg with SoC) is going to be the godsend kill in pvp. Burst is good, yes... but you arent giving apolyon the credit it deserves.

You think that because you use a torch or a brutal wep you are going to go up to somebody and be like "BOOOOOOOOOOOM 3 SHOTS DEAD LOL"

Especially if resil was fixed, the spell pushback capability would be more than enough reason to get a faster weapon like apolyon. Also, if you are fighting a melee class, at that point DPS does matter, unless they are going to run away for .25 seconds every swing that you take. Come to think of it, the only time brutal > apolyon would be fighting a hunter.

And if that be the case, grats. You beat the hunter. 8:1 ratio.

sorry but you seem to not get basic PvP concepts such as movement and that paladins are not an 'anti caster' class, if you want to pushback a spell as a paladin you're hopeless, .4 speed isn't going to do that, I don't know how I can get it through to you any more as I have said all I can that I know about the class

oh... if you only move/los/etc. fighting a hunter in any case... you are a horrible retribution paladin and should stop playing Very Happy

Its astounding how hard you fail. Either that or you are new here. Hunters can and will dispel every buff that youve got, including blessing of freedom. Also, there is no LOS.

Btw, .4 speed is a LOT, most casts will be going off around 2.0 sec, so thats a pretty good chance to hit during a spell. Again, id show you more math, but you'd only show me how much you obviously DONT know.

Paladins.
Cannot.
Pushback.
Spells.
Ever.

Dude, they have three ways to do it. Hammer of Justice, which has a maximum 1 minute CD, and something around twenty seconds with Prot's Imp HoJ and the Glad's set bonus. Repentance, which also has a one minute CD, and can't be talented for lessened CD.

Finally, they have Seal of Justice. Chance on hit to stun for 2 seconds. And, I dunno if you ever USE Seal of Justice, but if you have, then you know just as well as I do that the proc rate absolutely BLOWS. Maybe 2 procs per minute.....if you're lucky.

One hit from a 2h weapon against a 2 second cast isn't going to do shit to the caster, bro. It knocks it back what, less than half a second? Big deal, now you're just getting hit a bit later, but you're still getting hit.

Im not posting about interrupts, im posting about pushback. Pushback is when you hit them and their spell goes back 50% (or so) of the entire cast from what it's currently at.

EDIT: Just read the last sentence in your post. I'm not going to comment on it other than it shows even more how you dont understand this game's mechanics.
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Hambrgrhelpr - Easygoes - Kyle
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Fergie
Acc Ban 5 days

Age : 16
Joined : 05 Jul 2008
Posts : 1329
Location : Arkansas

Subject: Re: vote item request Panther Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:00 am

Interrupts are all a paladin HAS, they don't HAVE pushbacks in any form besides melee hits, which don't matter in the least.

hambrgrhelpr
Algorithm

Age : 18
Joined : 01 Aug 2008
Posts : 329
Location : Central Florida

Subject: Re: vote item request Panther

Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:05 am

Fergie wrote:

Interrupts are all a paladin HAS, they don't HAVE pushbacks in any form besides melee hits, which don't matter in the least.

I give up. Im trying to educate you, not argue. If you want to be terribad go ahead, but when you realize that im right, all ive got to say is "I told you so"
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Hambrgrhelpr - Easygoes - Kyle
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