vote item request Panther

Fergie
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Subject: Re: vote item request Panther

Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:07 am

hambrgrhelpr wrote:

Fergie wrote:

Interrupts are all a paladin HAS, they don't HAVE pushbacks in any form besides melee hits, which don't matter in the least.

I give up. Im trying to educate you, not argue. If you want to be terribad go ahead, but when you realize that im right, all ive got to say is "I told you so"

Prove me wrong in any way, shape, or form.

hambrgrhelpr
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Age : 18
Joined : 01 Aug 2008
Posts : 329
Location : Central Florida

Subject: Re: vote item request Panther

Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:13 am

Fergie wrote:

hambrgrhelpr wrote:

Fergie wrote:

Interrupts are all a paladin HAS, they don't HAVE pushbacks in any form besides melee hits, which don't matter in the least.

I give up. Im trying to educate you, not argue. If you want to be terribad go ahead, but when you realize that im right, all ive got to say is "I told you so"

Prove me wrong in any way, shape, or form.

Okay. Crusader strike and judgement (when dealing damage) will push back spells as well as white swings. There.
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Fergie
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Age : 16
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Posts : 1329
Location : Arkansas

Subject: Re: vote item request Panther Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:18 am

Crusader Strike is a melee hit, and Judgement is still, at the very least, 8 seconds. Nice pushback skills? No.

hambrgrhelpr
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Age : 18
Joined : 01 Aug 2008
Posts : 329
Location : Central Florida

Subject: Re: vote item request Panther

Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:23 am

Fergie wrote:

Crusader Strike is a melee hit, and Judgement is still, at the very least, 8 seconds.

Nice pushback skills? No.

Do you even know what pushback means?
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Fergie
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Age : 16
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Posts : 1329
Location : Arkansas

Subject: Re: vote item request Panther Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:32 am

begins casting Frostbolt gets hit by a Judgement and a Crusader Strike for a maximum 1 second pushback still gets the spell off...just one second later Yes. I understand.

hambrgrhelpr
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Location : Central Florida

Subject: Re: vote item request Panther

Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:37 am

Fergie wrote:

*begins casting Frostbolt*

*gets hit by a Judgement and a Crusader Strike for a maximum 1 second pushback*

*still gets the spell off...just one second later*

Yes. I understand.

And do you realize by your generated situation, you lowered their frostbolt dps by ~50%... right?

As in, the less damage you take, the longer you live?
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Fergie
Acc Ban 5 days

Age : 16
Joined : 05 Jul 2008
Posts : 1329
Location : Arkansas

Subject: Re: vote item request Panther Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:17 am

DPS doesn't equal burst. Frostbolt, here at least, can be a 10 second cast and it wouldn't matter. It's still going to hurt, and you're still going to have to bubble heal.

Guest
Guest

Subject: Re: vote item request Panther

Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:29 am

hambrgrhelpr wrote:

Kayako wrote:

hambrgrhelpr wrote:

Kayako wrote:

you sound like a pve tard -.-"

DPS does not matter for PvP, burst/spike damage does, faster weapon speed = more DPS, less burst.

nerfing your burst by using a faster weapon as a retribution paladin is the most stupid thing you could possibly do, as I have already said several times before...

I don't need any kind of "lessons" I know what I'm talking about, but it seems we're thinking of two completely different things, Apolyon = #1 retribution PvE weapon, no doubt, for PvP, however, no.

just. no.

DPS counts just as much in PvP, the difference is the haste which is very helpful. I'm not going into more math, but I dont think that a difference of 14 damage (9.8 dmg with SoC) is going to be the godsend kill in pvp. Burst is good, yes... but you arent giving apolyon the credit it deserves.

You think that because you use a torch or a brutal wep you are going to go up to somebody and be like "BOOOOOOOOOOOM 3 SHOTS DEAD LOL"

Especially if resil was fixed, the spell pushback capability would be more than enough reason to get a faster weapon like apolyon. Also, if you are fighting a melee class, at that point DPS does matter, unless they are going to run away for .25 seconds every swing that you take. Come to think of it, the only time brutal > apolyon would be fighting a hunter.

And if that be the case, grats. You beat the hunter. 8:1 ratio.

sorry but you seem to not get basic PvP concepts such as movement and that paladins are not an 'anti caster' class, if you want to pushback a spell as a paladin you're hopeless, .4 speed isn't going to do that, I don't know how I can get it through to you any more as I have said all I can that I know about the class

oh... if you only move/los/etc. fighting a hunter in any case... you are a horrible retribution paladin and should stop playing Very Happy

Its astounding how hard you fail. Either that or you are new here. Hunters can and will dispel every buff that youve got, including blessing of freedom. Also, there is no LOS.

Btw, .4 speed is a LOT, most casts will be going off around 2.0 sec, so thats a pretty good chance to hit during a spell. Again, id show you more math, but you'd only show me how much you obviously DONT know.

1. no, I'm not new here at all, I've been playing here since around 2.4,
2. I've played a retbution paladin into the 2k ratings on retail, I know more than you do. yes, I do.
3. I'm not a dude.
4. line of sight can easily be fixed, and eventually will, I'm sure you'd like to be better of knowing how to play with line of sight to your advantage instead of being stuck on there being no line of sight
5. it's obvious that you don't know how to play a retribution paladin because you're saying "because it has some sockets and it has a higher dps it's better for pvp"

and last, stop arguing with me, you're giving people terrible information and I'd rather not see more terrible people playing my class horribly giving the spec even more of a laughable title, thank you.

Guest
Guest

Subject: Re: vote item request Panther Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:34 am

Don't make this a voter item it takes hard work to get to it and not a lot of people are willing to do which makes it a good item. If you make it a voter item then it will become a crappy item that rouges must have to do well.

Guest
Guest

Subject: Re: vote item request Panther

Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:36 am

mitchelluldall wrote:

Don't make this a voter item it takes hard work to get to it and not a lot of people are willing to do which makes it a good item. If you make it a voter item then it will become a crappy item that rouges must have to do well.

that made no sense at all... can you please rephrase that?

meatballkeeper
KGB

Joined : 22 Feb 2008
Posts : 186

Subject: Re: vote item request Panther Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:36 am

lol, even with all the arguments, i still think apolyon is a beastly weapon. 3 sockets ftw. _________________

hambrgrhelpr
Algorithm

Age : 18
Joined : 01 Aug 2008
Posts : 329
Location : Central Florida

Subject: Re: vote item request Panther

Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:53 am

Kayako wrote:

hambrgrhelpr wrote:

Kayako wrote:

hambrgrhelpr wrote:

Kayako wrote:

you sound like a pve tard -.-"

DPS does not matter for PvP, burst/spike damage does, faster weapon speed = more DPS, less burst.

nerfing your burst by using a faster weapon as a retribution paladin is the most stupid thing you could possibly do, as I have already said several times before...

I don't need any kind of "lessons" I know what I'm talking about, but it seems we're thinking of two completely different things, Apolyon = #1 retribution PvE weapon, no doubt, for PvP, however, no.

just. no.

DPS counts just as much in PvP, the difference is the haste which is very helpful. I'm not going into more math, but I dont think that a difference of 14 damage (9.8 dmg with SoC) is going to be the godsend kill in pvp. Burst is good, yes... but you arent giving apolyon the credit it deserves.

You think that because you use a torch or a brutal wep you are going to go up to somebody and be like "BOOOOOOOOOOOM 3 SHOTS DEAD LOL"

Especially if resil was fixed, the spell pushback capability would be more than enough reason to get a faster weapon like apolyon. Also, if you are fighting a melee class, at that point DPS does matter, unless they are going to run away for .25 seconds every swing that you take. Come to think of it, the only time brutal > apolyon would be fighting a hunter.

And if that be the case, grats. You beat the hunter. 8:1 ratio.

sorry but you seem to not get basic PvP concepts such as movement and that paladins are not an 'anti caster' class, if you want to pushback a spell as a paladin you're hopeless, .4 speed isn't going to do that, I don't know how I can get it through to you any more as I have said all I can that I know about the class

oh... if you only move/los/etc. fighting a hunter in any case... you are a horrible retribution paladin and should stop playing Very Happy

Its astounding how hard you fail. Either that or you are new here. Hunters can and will dispel every buff that youve got, including blessing of freedom. Also, there is no LOS.

Btw, .4 speed is a LOT, most casts will be going off around 2.0 sec, so thats a pretty good chance to hit during a spell. Again, id show you more math, but you'd only show me how much you obviously DONT know.

1. no, I'm not new here at all, I've been playing here since around 2.4,
2. I've played a retbution paladin into the 2k ratings on retail, I know more than you do. yes, I do.
3. I'm not a dude.
4. line of sight can easily be fixed, and eventually will, I'm sure you'd like to be better of knowing how to play with line of sight to your advantage instead of being stuck on there being no line of sight
5. it's obvious that you don't know how to play a retribution paladin because you're saying "because it has some sockets and it has a higher dps it's better for pvp"

and last, stop arguing with me, you're giving people terrible information and I'd rather not see more terrible people playing my class horribly giving the spec even more of a laughable title, thank you.

1. Okay, it was just a statement. Nothing to bet money on.
2. Its hard to get 2k lol?
3. K, dont really care?
4. I was saying for specific for this server, at this moment in time, line of sight doesnt work. I know well how to play with it.
5. Its obvious that I don't know how to play a retribution paladin... sure, lets go with that. I'll bet that you're one of the guys that opens a duel with repentance. You act like having 14 less average damage is going to gimp your burst dmg SOOOO bad. The overall dps and stat increase is worth it.

I show that I'm serious with [ u ] and [ b ] and you're right. Even though I'm explaining game mechanics, the information is terrible and I am a terrible player because of it. I am very laughable and give retribution a bad name because I like having more dps. Does it make you feel better that I'm agreeing with you? I hope it does. That seems to be all that you really want.
_________________

Hambrgrhelpr - Easygoes - Kyle
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Subject: Re: vote item request Panther

Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:02 am

hambrgrhelpr wrote:

Kayako wrote:

hambrgrhelpr wrote:

Kayako wrote:

hambrgrhelpr wrote:

Kayako wrote:

you sound like a pve tard -.-"

DPS does not matter for PvP, burst/spike damage does, faster weapon speed = more DPS, less burst.

nerfing your burst by using a faster weapon as a retribution paladin is the most stupid thing you could possibly do, as I have already said several times before...

I don't need any kind of "lessons" I know what I'm talking about, but it seems we're thinking of two completely different things, Apolyon = #1 retribution PvE weapon, no doubt, for PvP, however, no.

just. no.

DPS counts just as much in PvP, the difference is the haste which is very helpful. I'm not going into more math, but I dont think that a difference of 14 damage (9.8 dmg with SoC) is going to be the godsend kill in pvp. Burst is good, yes... but you arent giving apolyon the credit it deserves.

You think that because you use a torch or a brutal wep you are going to go up to somebody and be like "BOOOOOOOOOOOM 3 SHOTS DEAD LOL"

Especially if resil was fixed, the spell pushback capability would be more than enough reason to get a faster weapon like apolyon. Also, if you are fighting a melee class, at that point DPS does matter, unless they are going to run away for .25 seconds every swing that you take. Come to think of it, the only time brutal > apolyon would be fighting a hunter.

And if that be the case, grats. You beat the hunter. 8:1 ratio.

sorry but you seem to not get basic PvP concepts such as movement and that paladins are not an 'anti caster' class, if you want to pushback a spell as a paladin you're hopeless, .4 speed isn't going to do that, I don't know how I can get it through to you any more as I have said all I can that I know about the class

oh... if you only move/los/etc. fighting a hunter in any case... you are a horrible retribution paladin and should stop playing Very Happy

Its astounding how hard you fail. Either that or you are new here. Hunters can and will dispel every buff that youve got, including blessing of freedom. Also, there is no LOS.

Btw, .4 speed is a LOT, most casts will be going off around 2.0 sec, so thats a pretty good chance to hit during a spell. Again, id show you more math, but you'd only show me how much you obviously DONT know.

1. no, I'm not new here at all, I've been playing here since around 2.4,
2. I've played a retbution paladin into the 2k ratings on retail, I know more than you do. yes, I do.
3. I'm not a dude.
4. line of sight can easily be fixed, and eventually will, I'm sure you'd like to be better of knowing how to play with line of sight to your advantage instead of being stuck on there being no line of sight
5. it's obvious that you don't know how to play a retribution paladin because you're saying "because it has some sockets and it has a higher dps it's better for pvp"

and last, stop arguing with me, you're giving people terrible information and I'd rather not see more terrible people playing my class horribly giving the spec even more of a laughable title, thank you.

1. Okay, it was just a statement. Nothing to bet money on.
2. Its hard to get 2k lol?
3. K, dont really care?
4. I was saying for specific for this server, at this moment in time, line of sight doesnt work. I know well how to play with it.
5. Its obvious that I don't know how to play a retribution paladin... sure, lets go with that. I'll bet that you're one of the guys that opens a duel with repentance. You act like having 14 less average damage is going to gimp your burst dmg SOOOO bad. The overall dps and stat increase is worth it.

I show that I'm serious with [ u ] and [ b ] and you're right. Even though I'm explaining game mechanics, the information is terrible and I am a terrible player because of it. I am very laughable and give retribution a bad name because I like having more dps. Does it make you feel better that I'm agreeing with you? I hope it does. That seems to be all that you really want.

I never said 14 less damage would kill it. I said .4 of a faster weapon would kill your burst enough to make any intelligent person go for something more like an arms warrior, because they would have much more of a big burst chance than a *retardin* using a 3.4 speed weapon.

you're not even reading my posts, are you?

hambrgrhelpr
Algorithm

Age : 18
Joined : 01 Aug 2008
Posts : 329
Location : Central Florida

Subject: Re: vote item request Panther

Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:06 am

Kayako wrote:

hambrgrhelpr wrote:

Kayako wrote:

hambrgrhelpr wrote:

Kayako wrote:

hambrgrhelpr wrote:

Kayako wrote:

you sound like a pve tard -.-"

DPS does not matter for PvP, burst/spike damage does, faster weapon speed = more DPS, less burst.

nerfing your burst by using a faster weapon as a retribution paladin is the most stupid thing you could possibly do, as I have already said several times before...

I don't need any kind of "lessons" I know what I'm talking about, but it seems we're thinking of two completely different things, Apolyon = #1 retribution PvE weapon, no doubt, for PvP, however, no.

just. no.

DPS counts just as much in PvP, the difference is the haste which is very helpful. I'm not going into more math, but I dont think that a difference of 14 damage (9.8 dmg with SoC) is going to be the godsend kill in pvp. Burst is good, yes... but you arent giving apolyon the credit it deserves.

You think that because you use a torch or a brutal wep you are going to go up to somebody and be like "BOOOOOOOOOOOM 3 SHOTS DEAD LOL"

Especially if resil was fixed, the spell pushback capability would be more than enough reason to get a faster weapon like apolyon. Also, if you are fighting a melee class, at that point DPS does matter, unless they are going to run away for .25 seconds every swing that you take. Come to think of it, the only time brutal > apolyon would be fighting a hunter.

And if that be the case, grats. You beat the hunter. 8:1 ratio.

sorry but you seem to not get basic PvP concepts such as movement and that paladins are not an 'anti caster' class, if you want to pushback a spell as a paladin you're hopeless, .4 speed isn't going to do that, I don't know how I can get it through to you any more as I have said all I can that I know about the class

oh... if you only move/los/etc. fighting a hunter in any case... you are a horrible retribution paladin and should stop playing Very Happy

Its astounding how hard you fail. Either that or you are new here. Hunters can and will dispel every buff that youve got, including blessing of freedom. Also, there is no LOS.

Btw, .4 speed is a LOT, most casts will be going off around 2.0 sec, so thats a pretty good chance to hit during a spell. Again, id show you more math, but you'd only show me how much you obviously DONT know.

1. no, I'm not new here at all, I've been playing here since around 2.4,
2. I've played a retbution paladin into the 2k ratings on retail, I know more than you do. yes, I do.
3. I'm not a dude.
4. line of sight can easily be fixed, and eventually will, I'm sure you'd like to be better of knowing how to play with line of sight to your advantage instead of being stuck on there being no line of sight
5. it's obvious that you don't know how to play a retribution paladin because you're saying "because it has some sockets and it has a higher dps it's better for pvp"

and last, stop arguing with me, you're giving people terrible information and I'd rather not see more terrible people playing my class horribly giving the spec even more of a laughable title, thank you.

1. Okay, it was just a statement. Nothing to bet money on.
2. Its hard to get 2k lol?
3. K, dont really care?
4. I was saying for specific for this server, at this moment in time, line of sight doesnt work. I know well how to play with it.
5. Its obvious that I don't know how to play a retribution paladin... sure, lets go with that. I'll bet that you're one of the guys that opens a duel with repentance. You act like having 14 less average damage is going to gimp your burst dmg SOOOO bad. The overall dps and stat increase is worth it.

I show that I'm serious with [ u ] and [ b ] and you're right. Even though I'm explaining game mechanics, the information is terrible and I am a terrible player because of it. I am very laughable and give retribution a bad name because I like having more dps. Does it make you feel better that I'm agreeing with you? I hope it does. That seems to be all that you really want.

I never said 14 less damage would kill it. I said .4 of a faster weapon would kill your burst enough to make any intelligent person go for something more like an arms warrior, because they would have much more of a big burst chance than a *retardin* using a 3.4 speed weapon.

you're not even reading my posts, are you?

I'm readin them, you're just wrong. Seeing as the argument was 3.6 vs 3.4, and haste rating doesnt do anything to normalization. Specifically I got worried when i read that you said a faster weapon would kill my burst... so lets get this right. Your logic is:

Weapon swings .2-.4 faster, and does 14 less dmg every swing. This kills burst.

I'm not seeing how this makes sense... explain?
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Hambrgrhelpr - Easygoes - Kyle
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Guest

Subject: Re: vote item request Panther

Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:19 am

hambrgrhelpr wrote:

Kayako wrote:

hambrgrhelpr wrote:

Kayako wrote:

hambrgrhelpr wrote:

Kayako wrote:

hambrgrhelpr wrote:

Kayako wrote:

you sound like a pve tard -.-"

DPS does not matter for PvP, burst/spike damage does, faster weapon speed = more DPS, less burst.

nerfing your burst by using a faster weapon as a retribution paladin is the most stupid thing you could possibly do, as I have already said several times before...

I don't need any kind of "lessons" I know what I'm talking about, but it seems we're thinking of two completely different things, Apolyon = #1 retribution PvE weapon, no doubt, for PvP, however, no.

just. no.

DPS counts just as much in PvP, the difference is the haste which is very helpful. I'm not going into more math, but I dont think that a difference of 14 damage (9.8 dmg with SoC) is going to be the godsend kill in pvp. Burst is good, yes... but you arent giving apolyon the credit it deserves.

You think that because you use a torch or a brutal wep you are going to go up to somebody and be like "BOOOOOOOOOOOM 3 SHOTS DEAD LOL"

Especially if resil was fixed, the spell pushback capability would be more than enough reason to get a faster weapon like apolyon. Also, if you are fighting a melee class, at that point DPS does matter, unless they are going to run away for .25 seconds every swing that you take. Come to think of it, the only time brutal > apolyon would be fighting a hunter.

And if that be the case, grats. You beat the hunter. 8:1 ratio.

sorry but you seem to not get basic PvP concepts such as movement and that paladins are not an 'anti caster' class, if you want to pushback a spell as a paladin you're hopeless, .4 speed isn't going to do that, I don't know how I can get it through to you any more as I have said all I can that I know about the class

oh... if you only move/los/etc. fighting a hunter in any case... you are a horrible retribution paladin and should stop playing Very Happy

Its astounding how hard you fail. Either that or you are new here. Hunters can and will dispel every buff that youve got, including blessing of freedom. Also, there is no LOS.

Btw, .4 speed is a LOT, most casts will be going off around 2.0 sec, so thats a pretty good chance to hit during a spell. Again, id show you more math, but you'd only show me how much you obviously DONT know.

1. no, I'm not new here at all, I've been playing here since around 2.4,
2. I've played a retbution paladin into the 2k ratings on retail, I know more than you do. yes, I do.
3. I'm not a dude.
4. line of sight can easily be fixed, and eventually will, I'm sure you'd like to be better of knowing how to play with line of sight to your advantage instead of being stuck on there being no line of sight
5. it's obvious that you don't know how to play a retribution paladin because you're saying "because it has some sockets and it has a higher dps it's better for pvp"

and last, stop arguing with me, you're giving people terrible information and I'd rather not see more terrible people playing my class horribly giving the spec even more of a laughable title, thank you.

1. Okay, it was just a statement. Nothing to bet money on.
2. Its hard to get 2k lol?
3. K, dont really care?
4. I was saying for specific for this server, at this moment in time, line of sight doesnt work. I know well how to play with it.
5. Its obvious that I don't know how to play a retribution paladin... sure, lets go with that. I'll bet that you're one of the guys that opens a duel with repentance. You act like having 14 less average damage is going to gimp your burst dmg SOOOO bad. The overall dps and stat increase is worth it.

I show that I'm serious with [ u ] and [ b ] and you're right. Even though I'm explaining game mechanics, the information is terrible and I am a terrible player because of it. I am very laughable and give retribution a bad name because I like having more dps. Does it make you feel better that I'm agreeing with you? I hope it does. That seems to be all that you really want.

I never said 14 less damage would kill it. I said .4 of a faster weapon would kill your burst enough to make any intelligent person go for something more like an arms warrior, because they would have much more of a big burst chance than a *retardin* using a 3.4 speed weapon.

you're not even reading my posts, are you?

I'm readin them, you're just wrong. Seeing as the argument was 3.6 vs 3.4, and haste rating doesnt do anything to normalization. Specifically I got worried when i read that you said a faster weapon would kill my burst... so lets get this right. Your logic is:

Weapon swings .2-.4 faster, and does 14 less dmg every swing. This kills burst.

I'm not seeing how this makes sense... explain?

K, now I'm positive that you're not reading my posts, 7 PPM o蠘n a faster weapon means that you will have less of a proc-per-swing ratio, meaning higher dps, but less burst. Less burst means a healer having a much easier time healing through your damage, and seeing as a retribution paladin has NO healing debuff, NO spell interrupt, and NO decent CC, that is absolutely the LAST thing you would want.